High scoring is definately the reason that your awards program went away. Face the fact that the level of difficulty has become so low that the program has become unaffordable. If you really feel that the awards program is that important then you must also realize that loss of credibility has caused the cost of the awards program to skyrocket while at the same time diminishing the status or value of the awards themselves. Perhaps it is true that your local house is not walled up, but there are currently no rules in place to keep it from happening. Without standards in place that define the difference between excellence and the ordinary everything must be treated as ordinary.
skullpants: High scoring is definately the reason that your awards program went away. Face the fact that the level of difficulty has become so low that the program has become unaffordable. If you really feel that the awards program is that important then you must also realize that loss of credibility has caused the cost of the awards program to skyrocket while at the same time diminishing the status or value of the awards themselves. Perhaps it is true that your local house is not walled up, but there are currently no rules in place to keep it from happening. Without standards in place that define the difference between excellence and the ordinary everything must be treated as ordinary.
Instead of dropping all awards and just giving "sport shot" awards, why don't the USBC step up and make all leagues PBA Exp.
instead of loosening up on inspections, tighten up on them.
who are they afraid they will make mad?
the people that are already mad?
USBC is more interested in serving the BPAA than its dues paying members.
coachk, try going a bit farther and write the new rule, write the rule that all centers can abide by with no fear of it not working all that well. Are you confident there is a good enough marriage of lane surface with lane conditioner today that did not exist during the very troublesome gutter to gutter and non discirnible blend days with urethane surfaces?
Are you confident that there is an easy and fast enough way for centers to check their lane conditions and association officials to check to make sure the rule is beind upheld?
Do you have in mind penalties that centers and bowlers can live with if centers hearing all sorts of complaints get too close to the limits and go over it?
Do you think if USBC played hard ball and yanked certifictions so bowlers in those centers had no legal averages for tournaments it would work and not backfire by having centers decide that had better just take over what USBC does now and all of them go uncertified?
Don Gates
RJN825: ZMAN300 wrote: dorajason wrote: USBC did NOT create the problem by making the awards (I guess you meant "too") too easy to get - a 298 / 299 has always been the same. Technology has made the game "easier" in general. However, again... it is the relationship between the individual MEMBER and USBC whereby over the years, recognition of 298 / 299 rings has been offered. So to compensate the evolution of core, cover stock, and equipment in general, USBC has opted to punish the individual by eliminating these awards. This is total BS. USBC can take their cheap china-made coffee coasters and stick it... of course they will in turn STICK US with higher membership fees. Way to go USBC -- it's not Bowl with US... it's SCREWED by US. Yeah that's what I meant, and they are too easy to get. Yes technology has made the game much easier, isn't all the equipment and blocked lanes USBC approved. You got it ZMAN! Hey, here's a novel idea, tighten up the lane conditions and keep giving free rings for 298-299 games. Now THAT'S what the USBC should approve.
ZMAN300 wrote: dorajason wrote: USBC did NOT create the problem by making the awards (I guess you meant "too") too easy to get - a 298 / 299 has always been the same. Technology has made the game "easier" in general. However, again... it is the relationship between the individual MEMBER and USBC whereby over the years, recognition of 298 / 299 rings has been offered. So to compensate the evolution of core, cover stock, and equipment in general, USBC has opted to punish the individual by eliminating these awards. This is total BS. USBC can take their cheap china-made coffee coasters and stick it... of course they will in turn STICK US with higher membership fees. Way to go USBC -- it's not Bowl with US... it's SCREWED by US. Yeah that's what I meant, and they are too easy to get. Yes technology has made the game much easier, isn't all the equipment and blocked lanes USBC approved.
dorajason wrote: USBC did NOT create the problem by making the awards (I guess you meant "too") too easy to get - a 298 / 299 has always been the same. Technology has made the game "easier" in general. However, again... it is the relationship between the individual MEMBER and USBC whereby over the years, recognition of 298 / 299 rings has been offered. So to compensate the evolution of core, cover stock, and equipment in general, USBC has opted to punish the individual by eliminating these awards. This is total BS. USBC can take their cheap china-made coffee coasters and stick it... of course they will in turn STICK US with higher membership fees. Way to go USBC -- it's not Bowl with US... it's SCREWED by US.
Yeah that's what I meant, and they are too easy to get.
Yes technology has made the game much easier, isn't all the equipment and blocked lanes USBC approved.
You got it ZMAN!
Hey, here's a novel idea, tighten up the lane conditions and keep giving free rings for 298-299 games. Now THAT'S what the USBC should approve.
What a unique concept! Restore credibility in order to lower the number of awards thus making the awards program affordable? It's brilliant!!! Alas it will never occur to USBC.
Are some of you people nuts?
Do you think that anything will ever be done to restore credibility to the game?
Instead, we need to make the game even EASIER so that everyone will be even HAPPIER ... right???
After all, everything is going so well in today's high-scoring era that we should all forget that some used to call bowling a SPORT.
By the way, what are some of the top averages on the LATE SHIFT at your respective center(s)? [What do you mean, there ISN'T a late shift?]
prunenow: coachk, try going a bit farther and write the new rule, write the rule that all centers can abide by with no fear of it not working all that well. Are you confident there is a good enough marriage of lane surface with lane conditioner today that did not exist during the very troublesome gutter to gutter and non discirnible blend days with urethane surfaces? Are you confident that there is an easy and fast enough way for centers to check their lane conditions and association officials to check to make sure the rule is beind upheld? Do you have in mind penalties that centers and bowlers can live with if centers hearing all sorts of complaints get too close to the limits and go over it? Do you think if USBC played hard ball and yanked certifictions so bowlers in those centers had no legal averages for tournaments it would work and not backfire by having centers decide that had better just take over what USBC does now and all of them go uncertified? Don Gates
Why would you have to do any of what you wrote? Just use the present rules. Check the lanes once a year and if they pass then all scores are certified. That's what USBC is doing now so why would you not continue the present practice?
Yes Don, or are you suggesting that proprietors might have a reason to suspect that the PBA Experience might not work all that well? I was thinking that I saw an article recently where USBC was calling it a huge success.
well???????
why doesn't usbc just go ahead and do away with awards all together? it seems that is the direction they are heading with all the cuts in the awards program that have been made the last few seasons.
skullpants, a huge success because by reducing the ratios from 2/1 to 3/1 the shot is not quite as tough maybe the carrydown not as excessive. For USBC huge is measured from not all that many to a few more not even one percent of the league totals yet.
What they intended is to provide an opportunity for those who wanted a competitive condition to be able to get it without forcing it on those that don't. You have the opportunity and need only persuade others in your center to also want it and away you go. I don't think USBC or BPAA will go along with you getting a sport condition forced on those you may not be able to get them to accept voluntarily, or accept then reject after trying it which many have.
If you get the BJ and read the Tom Kouros column you will note that he says much the same thing as I have said for a long time. Much of the problems in bowling today go back to the introduction of urethane surfaces with no good way to condition it and the problem remains today.
As much as Doomlikes to think golf and bowling are apples and oranges in many ways they are not. Golf Courses range in difficulty and are rated in a way that can stick because they do not change, the sand traps, water, trees, fairways, rough are set with some changes, like deeper rough or narrower fairways possible but very visible. In bowling with a heavy application of conditioner from gutter to gutter, even with a 3/1 ratio you will still find carrydown that results in moving sand traps, trees, water that is all invisible.
If bowling can solve that problem it will make it much easier for centers to put down various conditions that will be acceptable but they have to solve that problem first.
ToddM:why doesn't usbc just go ahead and do away with awards all together? it seems that is the direction they are heading with all the cuts in the awards program that have been made the last few seasons.
We're approaching the point where it could almost be said, "WHAT awards program?"
Dear Don Gates:
You obviously are so strongly in favor of NOT FORCING tougher lane conditions ... yet you seem to be strongly in favor of FORCING associations to merge.
How come you are so "forceful" in some instances but not others? Then again, that is your prerogative.
prunenow: skullpants, a huge success because by reducing the ratios from 2/1 to 3/1 the shot is not quite as tough maybe the carrydown not as excessive. For USBC huge is measured from not all that many to a few more not even one percent of the league totals yet. What they intended is to provide an opportunity for those who wanted a competitive condition to be able to get it without forcing it on those that don't. You have the opportunity and need only persuade others in your center to also want it and away you go. I don't think USBC or BPAA will go along with you getting a sport condition forced on those you may not be able to get them to accept voluntarily, or accept then reject after trying it which many have. If you get the BJ and read the Tom Kouros column you will note that he says much the same thing as I have said for a long time. Much of the problems in bowling today go back to the introduction of urethane surfaces with no good way to condition it and the problem remains today. As much as Doomlikes to think golf and bowling are apples and oranges in many ways they are not. Golf Courses range in difficulty and are rated in a way that can stick because they do not change, the sand traps, water, trees, fairways, rough are set with some changes, like deeper rough or narrower fairways possible but very visible. In bowling with a heavy application of conditioner from gutter to gutter, even with a 3/1 ratio you will still find carrydown that results in moving sand traps, trees, water that is all invisible. If bowling can solve that problem it will make it much easier for centers to put down various conditions that will be acceptable but they have to solve that problem first. Don Gates
In golf, it does not matter if a par 3 is 150 yards or 220 yards, if my clubface is open 2 degrees at impact I will miss the green right, there is no artificial cushion of air that will push the ball back left to land on the green. The same applies if I close the clubface 2 degrees at impact, I will miss the green left, there is no extra thick cushion of air that will hold the ball from going left. An off target release in bowling can be brought back into play by artificial means the oil pattern. An off target shot in golf, can you say bye, bye, of course there is always that friendly tree, heck they are 80% air anyway. I will grant you once the ball hits the ground it can be influenced by fairway slope, but I have seen a nasty duck hook roll uphill pretty quick, and get beyond those white stakes, and I have seen very few bowl shaped green that will allow a miss hit shot to recover and roll back toward the hole.
Don again, stick to what you know best, and it surly is not golf, APPLES TO ORANGES DON, APPLES TO ORANGES.
