joe1967,

Not sure what his capabilities are, but he is a lot better classified bowler than I am a regular bowler. As far as his intent, the rule states it has to be a certified sport league. It was brought out that the league he bowls in was not certified, but he submitted that average anyway, therefore the outcome squarely rests with the USBC, end of story.

Whether or not they want to take action is up to them, surely with all the hoopla, they will have to address it, or at least I would hope they do. The horse is dead and any more discussion would be counter productive. Good luck everyone....

em:

Whether or not they want to take action is up to them, surely with all the hoopla, they will have to address it, or at least I would hope they do. The horse is dead and any more discussion would be counter productive. Good luck everyone....

Dear EM:

Then again, USBC would probably want the discussion to end.

[See: sweeping under the rug] 

Could be MightyFish, they hold all the cards. Nothing short of a law suit would would curtail it. And you know what, they would use our money against us to fight it.(dues) Like I said all we can do is bring it to their attention and hope for the best. Can't use pistols against missles.  

They can use my dues monies and my prize check from the Open if they need to...... they should take every dime out of the guys association bank account and use that too.......... I wanna see who verifed this guys average from his association to satrt with!

Can someone please tell me what he is suppose to do.  A) He bowled in a league that competed on sport compliant conditions.  B) That was the only league he bowled in.  C) The bowling center is who decided not to sanction the league as sport compliant, they would of had the added expense.  D) He sanctioned as if it were a regular league. 

   Where is it that he broke any rules again????????  I'm still missing it.  Should he be an open division bowler, YES.  But according to the current rules, he followed each and every one of them.

    Some say that he should buck-up and say that he belongs in the open division.  Hmmmmm.....................So if I go into Nationals with a 165 average and asked to bowl in the open division, they would let me??????  Didn't think so.  So again, I'll ask.......................what is he suppose to do?????

This ain't friggin' rocket science here, by Kistlers previous book averages and realistic USBC tournament avg and previous performances he should have been RERATED and placed into the REGULAR DIVISION. He KNEW that his book average in a RENEGADE SPORT SHOT LEAGUE was not legit (as far a what USBC "enforces"as normal rec league playing conditions for averages for basing their rerate policies)

Unfortunately there are some real issue's with the tournaments integrity and rules enforcement policies.

Chado:

So if I go into Nationals with a 165 average and asked to bowl in the open division, they would let me?????? 

Of course they would!  You are in the open division by default.  You have to PROVE you belong in the classified division by getting your averages verified.  No (or improper) verfication... no classified division.  

I am not saying he intentionally broke any rules.  I don't know the guy's intentions.  But he's a good enough bowler to understand why his average suddenly dropped to 178.  

So... what was he supposed to do?  Not have verfied his 178 average on a non-certified sport league shot, that's what. 

Full_Dump!:

They can use my dues monies and my prize check from the Open if they need to...... they should take every dime out of the guys association bank account and use that too.......... I wanna see who verifed this guys average from his association to satrt with!

Dear Full Dump:

I don't know if it's true or not, but it has been reported here that his doubles partner was the association manager.

Chado:

    Some say that he should buck-up and say that he belongs in the open division.  Hmmmmm.....................So if I go into Nationals with a 165 average and asked to bowl in the open division, they would let me??????  Didn't think so.  So again, I'll ask.......................what is he suppose to do?????

Dear Chado:

If you go to nationals with a 165 and elect to bowl in the Regular Division, YOU WOULD BE ALLOWED to do so if you requested it. 

Wow !!

There sure is a lot of aggressive assumptions on this and the other thread.  I can understand exactly what Bowler K is going through.  We run a "PBA Experience" league that does have many bowlers that only bowl this night of the week.  Therefore, their averages will reflect this challenging shot.  The problem is the USBC requirements to "certify" a sport-compliant shot.  There are many proprietors who refuse to go through all the hassle and paperwork and postage required to comply to USBC's rules.  We are one of the houses that chooses not to certify the shot.  That is why you have scratch bowlers with lower averages all over the country recently.

Everyone on this thread, with one exception, talks as if they are all saints and would run to the registration desk with their 178 non-compliant sport average to declare themselves for the Regular division.   POPPYCOCK !!! 

I would venture to say the majority of you would love a chance to make $5K as opposed $500.

Don't get me wrong, I am not giving kudos to Bowler K, but you shouldn't be so quick to judge that this was his intent for an entire bowling season to sandbag so he could score at Nationals.  Trust me the "sport shot" is very frustrating to bowl on for 33 weeks straight.  If your a true bowler, you're going to try to strike/spare every frame.  I think that every bowler at Nationals is a true bowler.

The root cause of this problem lies with USBC..................soon to be BPAA.

 Have a wonderful day !!

AuburnBowl:

Everyone on this thread, with one exception, talks as if they are all saints and would run to the registration desk with their 178 non-compliant sport average to declare themselves for the Regular division.   POPPYCOCK !!! 

I would venture to say the majority of you would love a chance to make $5K as opposed $500.

Auburnbowl,

You don’t know me but I can tell you that I would put myself in the regular division if it was me.  You can make all the assumptions you want, I have been bowling for over 30 years now and I know where my skill level sits.  I believe in integrity and a lot of bowlers on this thread believe in it also. 

OK.  Maybe I should NOT have given this guy kudos.  But I don't think anyone that truely averages 165 would go begging to be in the Open division. 

I would love the chance at $5K over $500 anyday, but I will not cheat over it either.  The bowler in question I believe has been lucky to have made $500 in the Open division.  For those same scores, he will make $5K in Classified.  Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Now, of course, if he actually does what you all are accusing him of, then he should be DQ'd and never allowed to bowl again.  But how can one prove this, they can't.  We now have to find ways that will prevent this from happening again along with not hurting the legit bowler as well.  How do we do this????????   EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You can't use an Open average, that will allow some Open division bowlers into Classified and that what we are preventing.  You can't allow the bowler to be truthful and put himself into the correct division, thats what happened to begin with.  Who knows, when I go out in a couple of weeks, I hope I make $5k but I will settle for $500 knowing that its just another year.

Chado:

You can't use an Open average, that will allow some Open division bowlers into Classified and that what we are preventing.  You can't allow the bowler to be truthful and put himself into the correct division, thats what happened to begin with. 

Why can't you use the National tournament average? If that were the rule, this bowler would have been in the regular division where he belongs. His average for the last ten years is 187. That makes him a lower average regular division bowler. His composite average for the last 7 years (on bowl.com) is 196.8 for 436 games. A much better indicator of what division he belongs in than a one book on a uncertified sports shot.

My reference would be the person who posted earlier.  He currently carries a 197 league avg but only has a 165 tournament avg.  His league avg puts him in the Open division but his tourn. avg. puts him in Classified.  If he were to bowl in the Classified division and shoot 1890 (just like this guy), someone would have a problem with it.  And they would complain, start a thread and have over 400 posts. 

    Just because he shoots 1890, doesn't mean his composite avg will go above 180.   Now I suppose you could say that he should bowl the Classified division until he wins "X" amount in which he must bowl the Open division for "Y" number of years afterwards.  That might work.  I just don't want to make the true bowler pay.  It happens to much in society today.  And, if the true bowler pays, participation will decrease.  Its happening already.

Maybe we should start using the higher of your league average and your tournament average.