Hi there all, I am having the worst time trying to figure out something. About me, I am an average bowler (180-200 range), although I have had my moments. I am a lefty and I bowl pretty much down 5-10 arrow to the pocket. All my equipment is drilled to suit my style of play, and the person that drilled my stuff is very knowledgeable and I have complete faith in his opinion. However I recently purchased the new Roto Grip Cell, and my Pro Shop person drilled it up a little different than anything I own. That ball hooks very well, and it hits as hard as advertised. The problem is, that I can't figure this ball out. I can no longer play the line I am used to with it because I go Brooklyn or worse. I have tried adjusting where I stand and throwing it out and working on it coming back to the pocket, but I just can't and it's driving me crazy. My dilemma is this: Do I have this awesome ball re-drilled to suit what I am comfortable with ( I mean the ball is not even comfortable coming off my hand), or can someone tell me what I am doing wrong. I have heard of the 5 and 3 rule and intend to try this the next time I practice with the ball. But I am getting really frustrated, as I have yet to eclipse 200 with this ball, and 200 plus is usually very attainable for me. I don't want to continue to bug the pro shop because I feel he would get frustrated with me and I trust him. As I stated before he's drilled all my other equipment and it has all worked fairly well. I know I probably need a coach to help me as my self help efforts in practice have gone with little to no success. But can someone at least give me a bit of advice. Again this ball is as good as advertised, and I don't want to continue having it plugged and re-drilled just because I can't figure it out. So please help me because I'm losing my mind trying to go it on my own.

Well if the ball doesn't "feel" right coming off the hand, is it fit right? or a little different than your other stuff.

Are you playing a very dry area of the lane? Outside 10 is usually a little too dry for aggressive balls to be playing up the boards. You may want to try playing a small swing shot to start. 13 to 8. see where that gets you

Greetings rdarnell.  Monster is sooo right !!! All too often we give up our responsibility to proper ball fit to someone else. So don't let that happen. Ball fit is number 1.  If you don't like the ball feel, fit, or release it probably is not you. Its the ball. Most bowlers are just trying to get out of the ball, when its a bad fit. You can end up releasing it way too soon, releasing it slower, releasing it from a position that induces skid (short) but a violent backend.

 " My dilemma is this: Do I have this awesome ball re-drilled to suit what I am comfortable with ( I mean the ball is not even comfortable coming off my hand),"

If you agreed upon a new set of drilling specs even a small change, then I totally understand why you would not want to bother your driller.  However, if it is not working.... Ditch the new drill specs. Take the "I told you so."(if it applies) and get back on track with your game. That way you can see what that CELL will really do on the lanes.  You should absolutely love the way the bowling ball feels coming off your hand. Otherwise, why throw it?   

If it is possible you can take your bowling balls to someone else for a "second and third opinion." Remember, its your responsibility, not the ball driller's responsibility. You know there is something wrong, you just want to help fix the problem.  I love helping people get their game back on track and often it takes courage to recognize sumpn is stink'n up the place. Ball fit is number 1 in anyones program.  Without ball fit you can not make appreciable adjustments on the lanes that you can be comfortable with. Spans, pitches, inserts, and beveling(if any) needs to be uniform from bowling ball to bowling ball.  That is why you are a little PO'ed perhaps. Or ... slightly irretated. Don't let it get the best of you. Often there is a simple solution, but yah gotta be like sherlock holms when it comes to bowling at times. 

All of these thoughts, you probably know and just need to hear someone else yak for a bit. Especially with your skill level. But ask yourself a real question, "Can I adjust to the lanes with any confidence right now?"  I'd think not. New balls grab a lot, and a lot more when you can't get it off your hand correctly.  

Dedicated to you  =  "Of all the things I've lost in this world, my mind is the thing I miss the most.    ------author unknown.

Truebowler

www.TrueBowlerAdjustments.com

 

Greetings to you TrueBowler and monster for both replying.  As far as fit goes, that part does feel right.  I don't feel like I have to grip the ball and the span feels the same.  What does not feel right is when I throw it.  I know that probably does not make sense.  Because I feel like I am trying to force myself to throw the ball out, as opposed to what I am used to throwing and that is my normal down and in.  I even have practiced the "5 and 3" rule, of moving 5 boards to my right and moving my target 3 boards, and it still does not seem to help.  I am constantly throwing brooklyn shots or even worse, I actually, and I'm not joking took out only the 10 pin.  I have considered a 2nd opinion as you said, but I don't want to ruin my loyalty to my pro shop that has been extremely good to me.  The problem as I stated, my guy told me that he was drilling this ball unlike anything I have ever owned, and boy was he right.  I tried swinging out a little bit, but it just doesn't feel natural for me... as I stated my game is pretty much between 5 and 10 boards, and in and I usually can hit my mark.  So I guess I'm wondering for a ball this aggressive, is it possible to play it down and in and not lose it's abilities, or maybe this is too much ball for me.  I thought about hiring a coach to assist me and maybe watching me throw he can see something I'm doing wrong.  I will definitely keep you gentlemen posted, as I am very avid about my game and my goal is to step it up a notch.  I am joining a PBA Experience league, and I know that will help alot.  It's weird, I carry an average around 180, but I know I'm better.  I just hit slumps around mid season that sends my average to a point to where once I'm out of the slump it's too late to improve the average enough to get back up over a 200 avg.  That's why I do so well in tournaments, my book average says one thing, but I am really not as bad as the book, if that makes any sense.  Anyway, again thank you both for responding, it's nice to know that I'm not completely losing my mind, but that I just need to tweek something to get comfortable with this ball.

Oh my, then short of redrilling your ball you may be better served by investing in my book. It sounds as if you may have a Rico drill with the pin below your ring finger. Possibilly the mass bias is kicked out to your left. Adjustments are what you are looking for which are right up my alley.  Get it, alley.... I kill myself sometimes...Take care.

Truebowler

www.TrueBowlerAdjustments.com

If you are not getting the ball redrilled because you  feel it is OK then  how is the cover prepared?

I have several balls and a spinner that I change until I get the reaction I want.

I also do not force a ball to do something that I or the ball cannot do.

I have a ball redrilled four times until it finally did what it was pro-moe-d to do.

Was it me or the ball ?? 

Lets face it every ball cannot be for everone bowling.

I changed the cover many times then had the ball redrilled 4 times until I finally was able to get it to do want I wanted it to do.  Do you want to go through all this?

If you have a spinner then the fastest way to change the ball reaction is to change the cover finish.  I have found differences in just a change from 2000 abralon sanding to 4000 abralon without any other change produces a big difference in taking out the 10 or 7 pin.  The reaction on my balls change with polish or sanding.

Before redrilling ( if it really fits right remember I redrilled 4 times to get it right! You cannot out bowl a bad fit!) try changing the cover to something that will work on your lanes.  Ask yourself does the ball hook and set early, late or take off on the backend.  You have to determine what the ball is doing that you want to change.  Then prep the ball to the best of your knowledge.

I say this because I have been there and done that and had success and failure.  No one can be perfect all the time and one condition does not fit all.  Even the ball I wrote about above cannot be used every league night, unless I want to work very hard instead of bowling normal and scoring better.  I am past the thought that the more you pay the better the ball will fit you needs.  I am more in the zone of using the best ball for the lane conditions.

Don't force the ball to do something it was not made to do, you lose more times then win--unless you are a pro then skill and shot quality gives you the edge. If your ball does not work for you don't give up just try to make smart adjustments.  I went from someone who drilled a "300" ball for me to someone who I did not know but was willing to listen to my concerns and watch me throw several shots and redrill a ball that never worked (High 170) to a ball that I used and average 210 in 21 games with, a 279-solid 8 pin high game. You may be able to change the reaction if you learn what it is doing and when it is going straight or hooking.  The best knowledge is to watch and learn what the ball is doing and use it on those conditions that it will work best.

If you are not lucky enough to have a few balls with different reactions for different lane conditions then learning to play on your conditions is a time process don't get overly mad or happy if it works or does not.  Just try and learn how to use it the best you can under each condition you find.  Don't think the 5 and 3 rule is the only thing you can do.  I have played straight lines with balls balls that should hook out of the building but prep on the cover and oil line help you follow a path to the pocket that will carry not just leave corner pins. 

In case I sound like some nut or top bowler I am just a 205 bowler who tries to learn something from each night bowling.  If you take the right approach for you not me then things will work out.  Just don't give up, learn more and bowling will become more of a learning experience then an experience getting you angry.

Good luck in changing your ball reaction ( hand refinishing can make a difference even if you don't have a spinner.

Dennis 

rdarnell:

 Because I feel like I am trying to force myself to throw the ball out, as opposed to what I am used to throwing and that is my normal down and in.  I even have practiced the "5 and 3" rule, of moving 5 boards to my right and moving my target 3 boards, and it still does not seem to help.  I am constantly throwing brooklyn shots or even worse,

 

It sounds like this might be something that you can work out with a coach, as opposed to redrilling right away (though that might still be part of the solution).  From what you have said, it sounds like you have developed one preferred line into the pocket, and cannot play other lines with any consistency.  I would point out that if you want to improve your game, then having a ball that forces you out of your comfort zone might be a good thing.

 As for throwing the ball out, are you adjusting the angle of your approach, or just trying to change the direction of your armswing to move the ball out?  When you experiment with new lines, you should try to keep your armswing compared to your body the same, you don't want to start muscling the ball, or change the direction of your armswing.  Instead, square your body to your target, and walk towards it.  This will mean walking at a slight diagonal for most starting postion/target combinations, but it allows you to play all sorts of different lines simply by moving your feet and your target.  Your delivery remains the same for each shot, which will allow you to maintain consistency.

 If you try to simply keep your body squared to the lane and try to hit different targets by changing the direction of your swing, it will be much more difficult.  You would have to learn an adjusted delivery for each different angle.

I would definitely recommend finding a coach nearby and trying a lesson or two.

Hey Trek,

 Thanks for responding.  To answer your questions as best that I can:

 The ball was sanded out of the box, I rolled it several games and it was way to aggressive for my style of play.  Then I had it polished, not too much just enough to keep it more under control.  That helped some, but not enough.  The re-drilling to me is a last resort, as I figure "hey I must be doing something wrong".  I mean everyone else that has this ball raves about it, not to mention that I've seen it on the PBA Telecasts on several occasions.  I watched Mike Scroggins throw it and he's pretty much up the 5-10 board and in, like myself.  I am hoping that I can figure this out w/out re-drilling it several times.  If it comes down to that, then I will, but I still wonder if it's not me.  I have actually spoken with a coach who is going to meet me in a couple of weeks and see if like I said, it's not "just me".  I have tried gradually adjusting my line, on my own, but to no avail.  So I am going to get help.  I will definitely give an update on the board here, when I have had a coaching session.

Hey Mike,

 

I have actually set up a coaching session in a couple of weeks, and we are going to work on the very things you mentioned.  Armswing, approach lines etc... I know it's probably nothing major, but that I just need to tweak some mechanics. 

I am glad to hear you have set up a coach to help you.  Using the Internet is OK however since no one can actually watch you bowl, help isn't always helpful or correct it's a shot in the dark so to speak.

I have had a coach and also gone to the BTM Superschool.  They helped me improve and did change many aspects of my approach. Even though I thought nothing was wrong and I had once already bowled a 300.  I however was not very consistent and more concerned with score then actually bowling better.  They taught me to appreciate bowling and proper techniques that make me a better bowler.  Yes, I make more spares and more pocket hits on all different oil conditions then ever before.

My only suggestion to you when using a coach is to LISTEN and FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.  Yes, even if you think they are wrong and this cannot be correct just try it unless it is physically painful.  I made many changes to my approach.  Little by little but still from a coach to the Superschool I hear things that were the same that I only thought I was doing but yet only close not exact.

Give your best shot at listening to all the information and after each session take 10 or 15 minutes to write down what you did so you do not forget.  Better yet does the coach provide you with suggestions in written form?  Videotape?

I had videotape done from my first coach and one done at the BTM Superschool.  I could easily see the difference from before a coach to what the coach helped me do better.  Also I could see where I did not progress according to my coach (not following directions) and where the BTM Superschool showed me how to make these changes and improve.

If you are serious about getting better then practice and not worrying about score during practice is a big factor in improvement.  I cannot say I have given up on score during a league because it was just my nature to strive for an honor score, however practice is just that PRACTICE not how good I can score. That was a big step in improving for me.  I am now able to go to practice and shoot 3 games and only shoot at the 7 or 10 pin or whatever for each shot.  No strike shots just practice on spares that give me the most problems.

My first goal was to bowl a 200 game once every night of the season and trying to average 200 for the season as all under 200 bowlers want.  Once I learned spares were my main factor involved in improving and practice meant PRACTICE not score, I improved and reached my goals.

So, good luck with your coach and I hope he/she listens to your concerns so you can become a better bowler, and also make the best of the ball that started this thread. By the way just because I gave you insight to my practice routine I suggest you use whatever your coach recommends, your needs may be different then what mine are. GOOD LUCK.

 Dennis

Hey Dennis,

 Thanks for responding.  I am very much ready to listen to a coach because obviously they would know after seeing me throw, what exactly I'm doing wrong.  It's weird because I throw an older Storm ball (Domination), and I kill with it.  I threw at a no tap tourney, granted that is not a very good judge, but nevertheless I threw my Domination and was dead spot on.  This was again by going up the 5-10 arrow.  Anyway, there was a gentleman on the same pair as me, throwing a sanded Cell and he was very much a down and in bowler.  I asked him how he had his drilled and he said that for him, even though the ball is a very aggressive ball, you can tame it a bit to fit your style, and yet it can still hit hard (which it was doing all day this weekend, I mean this guy was crushing the pins even though he wasn't using a deep line).  He said that it may be best to take my best ball to the local pro shop and get their advice.  Again I am very tentative to re-drill the ball without a coaching session first.  BTW that is scheduled for this upcoming Sunday morning.  But I have now had at least 10 people tell me that my style is not conducive with how this ball is laid out.  There was also a mention of putting a weight block in to lessen the aggressiveness of the ball.  Does that make sense?  I just wonder if maybe I have purchase a ball that is "too much ball" for me.  My eagerness to own this ball, after all the rave reviews it has gotten, may have been in play here.  Part of me thinks I should have taken that money and bought something more to my style of play.  I don't know, but after seeing someone else play down and in with the ball, makes me think I can too.  I will update you and again thanks for responding.

You've referenced the layout beuig wrong for you more than once, but you have not described how te ball is drilled.  Where is the pin in relative to your fingers and your PAP?  Where is the CG and the Mass Bias in relative to your grip?  Those piece of information a very inmportant before anyone can make a judgment on the ball layout. 

 It will aslo be helpfull to know you ball speed and relative rev rate.