Don,

    If you noticed in my reply, there is one major difference in mine and turkeyboy's philosphies, which is that I generally support the classified division being there as way to segragate a portion of the lower average bowlers. But the tournament needs to be about rewarding the best of the best in eahc division. Now in the regular division, that person could be a 230 average, a 220 average or a 190 average, it all depends on who rolled the best while they were there. What I keep hearing from you is how you say the 185-205 average bowler has no chance at winning. If that is an incorrect statement, please correct me. That isn't the correct message to send. The message to send is what Gen Pounder wrote out. You have a chance to win, to make some money. but you will have to bowl above and beyond your ability. That is true for 99% of the bowlers that go there. I would be a member of that highest average band your posted, but if I just shoot my average, I don't get an eagle, I don't even get into the top 150 in singles. Will I make money, yes. But why should I be punished for spending the time and money to improve my game over the last 20 years? Again you have a valid point that if entries begin to drop the USBC needs to examine why and find a way to reverse it. And at this point no really knows what the right answer is to do that until the time that it happens and we find why the people are not returning.

JSnide:

Getting back to the subject of sandbagging.  It's interesting to see that the two people who run the Ebonite booth at the Open Championships are in the Classified division and carry 160-170 averages in their league at home, however they were both able to shoot 600 series' on the lanes at Nationals.  Maybe they got lucky.  If so, then good for them.  However, it's hard for me to see how folks with a 160 average are able to give others advice on bowling.  Isn't that part of what the folks do at the vendor booths? 

Are they better bowlers than their averages would lead people to believe?  Isn't that the definition of sandbagging? 

I don't want to make anyone angry, but I do believe this is an issue.  I'm not sure how widespread it is.  I guess with over 60000 people bowling, some are bound to get lucky.  Perhaps it's all about luck?

 I sure hope I get lucky and people can call me a sandbagger...

I was wondering how long it was going to take for another insinuating post like this was going to show up here. Do most classified bowlers get in a frenzy everytime someone new takes the lead. Isn't this game about who can knock down the most pins on any givin day?

p.s.  The shot this year isn't that difficult.

p.s.s. The woman at the Ebonite booth was running the cash register, taking money/giving change/receipts....etc. She wasn't punching out bowling balls in the backroom. You would'nt be worrying about this if her "440 something singles set" was her doubles score.

Let these people have their 15 mins.

Don

Thanks for the response.  I for one am one of those that goes for the sake of the eagle.  The money is a nice addition but the money I go to bowl with is discretionary entertainment money.  I for one would not have a problem if the team count went down to the 5000 or 6000 that some seem to think it may if the classified division was not there anymore.  I see the tournament as a chance to test your skills against the best, not the best in each class.  You can't go into any tournament anymore without there being some kind of side discussion about a sandbagger.  To me that is like a cancer to our sport.  How do  you deal with cancer, you cut it out.  How do you get back the integrity of the sport, take sandbagging completely out of it.  I have no problem with another tournament doing for the classified division is now, just not the Open.  But since I am not in that division, I am not directly impacted.

I also have witnessed the exact thing you are talking about with regards to the money side.  It is amazing to see the transactions taking place before and after a squad as groups pool their money or luckier yet, have a bowling sponsor that covers everything for them. 

 I do have hope for the sport.  I do remember and did bowl in some of the classic leagues and tournament clubs that existed in the Phoenix area.  As you state, those days are pretty much gone.  When I moved to Georgia five years ago there was not a scratch league to be found.  It is amazing to see some of the best talent in our sport from 15 years ago bowling in leagues with unlimited handicap.  On the positive side, regarding the youth in bowling, I have been fortunate enough to have seen some of the young talent coming up since they were kids.  Jim Pratt, Shannon Pluhowsky, Brett Wolfe, Andrew Cain and others all came from the Phoenix area.  They had a little more press there because of the bowling newspaper called the Desert Bowler. I have to believe there are others with that same kind of talent locally here too.  You just never hear about them.

turkeyboy,  I am all in favor of there being one champion in each division who receive eagles and having the very best  recognition in media and on site when they bowl.  I am not at all in favor of average divisions where 100% of the prize money in each division is given out within that division.  I agree that everyone who enters should be aware that they are bowling against the very best and the very best will likely get the better of those not so good bowlers in the standings and in brackets and side bars.  The tournament is about striving to win an eagle and the very best compete with each other for the most part though it is very possible for a dark horse to sneak in there.

I remember how back in 1983 my pal Fran Bax set a then high series record in any event while leading his team to the regular division title, a 3286 that he contributed 833 to, the other four getting the other 53 pins, an average of 612.  In another year a very heavy entrant, a righthander who finished on his right foot and had never bowled a 600 series took the lead away for a local friend who held the lead for just one day, bowling a nice 700 that did not win the title but placed high.  Lightning can strike for just about anyone.  I did a story on a fireman in Syracuse who averaged 156, took his ball out of the locker after a summer of not bowling at all, had no practice balls and bowled a 300 on opening night.  However, the better you are the better chance there is of getting hit by lightning and winning an eagle or placing in the top 100 in any division, that's for sure.

However, I am also in favor of sidebars just because the tournament itself encourages and the uniqueness of the site and experience attract bowlers of all skill levels as pointed out in my posting of averages entered in this year's event.  I'm reasonably sure the 3647 entrant averaging 221 to 256 have little interest in competing against the 4223 entrants, who entered averaging 181-185, and the $105,000 they contributed to the prize fund.  I doubt very much if you would find the 181-185 average bowlers competing heads up against bowlers averaging 221-256 in any other tournament.

So, since the 181-185 average bowlers all have to bowl well over their entering averages on likely tougher conditions than those they bowled on to get their average, what's the harm in taking a portion of that $105,000 and doling it in a sidebar prize list just for that average division, say $10 to 20 thousand and let the blue chippers fight it out for the rest; ditto for each ten pin increment division, including the classified division and the 221-256 division, a best of class sidebar prize list.  Give those guys and gals averaging 55 to 120 a piece of the $3500 they contribute to the prize list as just a bone with a little meat on it for them to fight over.

If you look at the posted prize list you will not  sidebar prize list for entrants beginning when they have competed in 25 tournaments and on up until they bowl 50 and get a free ride from that entry on.  It's not much but does give bragging rights to those who lead each division increment and for some the only check they will get.  That is certainly true of the two lowest average divisions I listed for classifed and open divisions, a side bar check perhaps the only check they would get if it was available and most would not even get that.

Don Gates

Don, this is the USBC Open Championships!!!! Not City, state or mixed handicapped tournament. How many of the higher cashers in the Classified division really should be under 180 averages? It is bad enough this "sport" has to worry about what machine oils your lanes, who bowls in front of you, what pair you are on and so forth..... but to bring sandbagging issues into THIS tournament is very very very very sad. This tournament is about the best bowling the best, the death of bowling would NEVER happen because of this tournament NOT having a classified division, the DEATH of bowling would more likely happen because of the classified division being there. You make alot of points about 185 average bowlers not wanting to compete against 230 average bowlers, BUT AT LEAST THEY KNOW what they are up against..... they understand for the most part they are not really as good as those bowlers and take what is placed in front of them.............. but for some darn reason you think that legitimate 183 average bowlers would much rather have the guy who has averaged 217 3 years prior all of a sudden be able to average 182 and take all that money and the unsespecting legit bowler lose in a much worse way.... these are my opinions based on what you believe,, all bowlers look for the advantage, whether it be their teammates, what loophole they can find within the rules or whatever else you can come up with.

I also do not believe that this tournament would EVER have less then 9,000 teams bowling with or without the "newly" formed version of the old booster division! I have some faith in this game, I dont believe alot of the folks at the USBC do, nor the people who propose these changes that have been made..... and if you do not agree with any that I say,,,,, and you must have this division within the USBC Open Championships, could you at least agree that the Classified division winners should NEVER receive more the $600...... with 70th or whatever place down the line also receiving $600.. probably could pay $600 all the way down to 100th this year in that division!!!

FullDump, while I was in favor of having the good number of lower average entrants get a better shake I was not in favor a specific division and certainly not establishing that division with a 180 max.  I agree that there should be no really big money passed out to lower average bowlers who do not bowl the best scores in the tournament but do think having side bar prize lists, say in increments of ten right from the bottom to the top should rate some consideration.

If there are over 4,000 entrants averaging between 181 and 185 with very little chance of getting a decent check what's the harm in having just a portion of the better than $100,000 they contribute to the prize fund allocated back to them directly; ditto for those 142 that average between 55 and 120 this year.

Just because it is an open tournament does that mean it is important that the 32,000 entrants who average between 206 and 256 have a right to the lion's share of the prize money every year with very few of them, if any occupying the list of 75% who do not cash in each event?  Is providing the many who are not all that skilled but love the tournament a little something to realistically shoot for violating the format of the event attracting the best to duke it out for eagles?

Don Gates