I hate too admit that we did nothing in my area too
Brian, doing nothing so far as working together for National Bowling Week is not nearly as important as doing nothing if the local associations, bowling centers and other for profits, who do business in bowling,did nothing to prepare for the upcoming bowling season to bring new men, women, youth into the game, welcome them, and begin training them to become future league bowlers; attempt to bring those who have quit back to the game to fill holes in leagues and create new leagues that are structured to satisfy the reasons many have quit.
Don Gates
Dear Don:
Obviously easier said than done.
prunenow: Brian, doing nothing so far as working together for National Bowling Week is not nearly as important as doing nothing if the local associations, bowling centers and other for profits, who do business in bowling,did nothing to prepare for the upcoming bowling season to bring new men, women, youth into the game, welcome them, and begin training them to become future league bowlers; attempt to bring those who have quit back to the game to fill holes in leagues and create new leagues that are structured to satisfy the reasons many have quit. Don Gates
Don,
I don't see how you can expect the local assns. and "other for profits" to do anything to try to bring in new bowlers when proprietors in our area don't even do anything themselves to bring new people into the sport. Of course, maybe if they all get together and sing Kumbyya (sp?) new bowlers will crawl out of the wordwork. We have several centers in our area owned by one of the icons of the industry and they do nothing more than put out flyers in the center and send postcards to people who bowled the previous season. I have done more to promote business in one of their houses than their entire management team has done. Last year I put 84 bowlers in a PBAX league and only got 34 back this year. The center did practically nothing to help promote the league and retain bowlers. They only seem interested in glow bowling and birthday parties and leave the leagues to promote themselves.
Doom, I don't know that but do know there is no top to bottom organization in place where a national organization can count on support from a local organization to accept and run with a marketing program to retain and build membership.
I would hope there are several local organizations in place where their men, women, youth, bowling centers and local outlets of companies who do business in or support bowling in some way have met to jointly plan and implement programs of mutual value many times and are able in a very short time to meet to take on anything of value national passes on to them.
I hope organizations of this kind annually implement pre season programs to keep their membership numbers strong and had no trouble meeting to take on what BPAA/USBC asked of them as an addition to what they already do as a pre season cooperative effort.
However, if there are local organizations working together for common good bottom line reasons it is because they have strong local leadership that can act on their own and if there was national support could do even better. If national was to persuade a Pepsi Cola or Budweiser, or McDonald's to support a national marketing program in place local organizations like this would know how to contact and work out ways with local outlets of Pepsi Cola, Budwiser and McDonald's to make that national support worthwhile at local levels for them as well as certified bowling. I'm afraid more locals would have no history of working together and would be clueless about how to do this all important task in order to take advantage of an opportunity and help keep national sponsors renewing their support.
Denny's right now is probably an all important supporter of the PBA and in many other ways but I doubt if they will stay in for the long run because at local levels where there should be strong support for Denny's there is not and some day they will join a very long list of very good corporate supporters who left bowling when their considerable investment did not produce good enough returns to make it worthwhile.
Locals where there is a Denny's, maybe several Denny's, should have contacted these local outlets to work out a way to work together to persuade customers who do not bowl to try it; ditto for Pepsi Cola, Budweiser, McDonald's and others who have loads of men, women and youth who have not bowled plus loads of bowlers who do use those products.
Doom, the loss of memberships from over 9 million to 2.5 million and dropping is all the proof needed that there is no good top to bottom organization to deal with this and I think if there was one in place when the numbers were growing they would not have ever gone down while population increased.
p.s. a center where I do some coaching has lost 120 bowlers this season and has seen budget tightening that requires cutting hours for some employees and others having to take on extra work with no extra compensation. With the cost of gas and so many seeing their home values, 401k retirement savings dropping I believe this upcoming season could be one of the toughest as many who bowled two or more leagues may be bowling just once and some who made pretty long trips to bowl once not doing that.
prunenow: Doom, I don't know that but do know there is no top to bottom organization in place where a national organization can count on support from a local organization to accept and run with a marketing program to retain and build membership. I would hope there are several local organizations in place where their men, women, youth, bowling centers and local outlets of companies who do business in or support bowling in some way have met to jointly plan and implement programs of mutual value many times and are able in a very short time to meet to take on anything of value national passes on to them. I hope organizations of this kind annually implement pre season programs to keep their membership numbers strong and had no trouble meeting to take on what BPAA/USBC asked of them as an addition to what they already do as a pre season cooperative effort. However, if there are local organizations working together for common good bottom line reasons it is because they have strong local leadership that can act on their own and if there was national support could do even better. If national was to persuade a Pepsi Cola or Budweiser, or McDonald's to support a national marketing program in place local organizations like this would know how to contact and work out ways with local outlets of Pepsi Cola, Budwiser and McDonald's to make that national support worthwhile at local levels for them as well as certified bowling. I'm afraid more locals would have no history of working together and would be clueless about how to do this all important task in order to take advantage of an opportunity and help keep national sponsors renewing their support. Denny's right now is probably an all important supporter of the PBA and in many other ways but I doubt if they will stay in for the long run because at local levels where there should be strong support for Denny's there is not and some day they will join a very long list of very good corporate supporters who left bowling when their considerable investment did not produce good enough returns to make it worthwhile. Locals where there is a Denny's, maybe several Denny's, should have contacted these local outlets to work out a way to work together to persuade customers who do not bowl to try it; ditto for Pepsi Cola, Budweiser, McDonald's and others who have loads of men, women and youth who have not bowled plus loads of bowlers who do use those products. Doom, the loss of memberships from over 9 million to 2.5 million and dropping is all the proof needed that there is no good top to bottom organization to deal with this and I think if there was one in place when the numbers were growing they would not have ever gone down while population increased. Don Gates p.s. a center where I do some coaching has lost 120 bowlers this season and has seen budget tightening that requires cutting hours for some employees and others having to take on extra work with no extra compensation. With the cost of gas and so many seeing their home values, 401k retirement savings dropping I believe this upcoming season could be one of the toughest as many who bowled two or more leagues may be bowling just once and some who made pretty long trips to bowl once not doing that.
Doctor Doom: prunenow: Doom, I don't know that but do know there is no top to bottom organization in place where a national organization can count on support from a local organization to accept and run with a marketing program to retain and build membership. I would hope there are several local organizations in place where their men, women, youth, bowling centers and local outlets of companies who do business in or support bowling in some way have met to jointly plan and implement programs of mutual value many times and are able in a very short time to meet to take on anything of value national passes on to them. I hope organizations of this kind annually implement pre season programs to keep their membership numbers strong and had no trouble meeting to take on what BPAA/USBC asked of them as an addition to what they already do as a pre season cooperative effort. However, if there are local organizations working together for common good bottom line reasons it is because they have strong local leadership that can act on their own and if there was national support could do even better. If national was to persuade a Pepsi Cola or Budweiser, or McDonald's to support a national marketing program in place local organizations like this would know how to contact and work out ways with local outlets of Pepsi Cola, Budwiser and McDonald's to make that national support worthwhile at local levels for them as well as certified bowling. I'm afraid more locals would have no history of working together and would be clueless about how to do this all important task in order to take advantage of an opportunity and help keep national sponsors renewing their support. Denny's right now is probably an all important supporter of the PBA and in many other ways but I doubt if they will stay in for the long run because at local levels where there should be strong support for Denny's there is not and some day they will join a very long list of very good corporate supporters who left bowling when their considerable investment did not produce good enough returns to make it worthwhile. Locals where there is a Denny's, maybe several Denny's, should have contacted these local outlets to work out a way to work together to persuade customers who do not bowl to try it; ditto for Pepsi Cola, Budweiser, McDonald's and others who have loads of men, women and youth who have not bowled plus loads of bowlers who do use those products. Doom, the loss of memberships from over 9 million to 2.5 million and dropping is all the proof needed that there is no good top to bottom organization to deal with this and I think if there was one in place when the numbers were growing they would not have ever gone down while population increased. Don Gates p.s. a center where I do some coaching has lost 120 bowlers this season and has seen budget tightening that requires cutting hours for some employees and others having to take on extra work with no extra compensation. With the cost of gas and so many seeing their home values, 401k retirement savings dropping I believe this upcoming season could be one of the toughest as many who bowled two or more leagues may be bowling just once and some who made pretty long trips to bowl once not doing that.Well Don, that is all fine and dandy in the dream world, but the events in the realm of reality, say different. All that you outline may be the salvation of organized bowling, but I would not hold my breath. I have a hard time seeing any of it happening. Bowling has been reduced to third tier sport and it always will be, the glory days are gone, never to return. You may think the glass is half full, and somewhat clear, but facts say the glass is half empty, and very muddy. To prove my point, I am sure you know the circumstances behind the 302 bowlers not returning this year. 300 strangers from Mena Arkansas, and 2 friends from Pewaukee Wisconsin, one I have met, and one I look forward to meeting one day. If the events that led to these 302 people not bowling are allowed in this sport, then this sport is not worth saving. Just my .02 worth, take it as you will
Doom, like me as a possible other reason. All went well with my shoulder operation on May 15th and I have been faithful to my rehab exercises but the shoulder is not where I would like it to be and may have to delay my return to league bowling for awhile unless I want to bowl at a 12mph rather than my normal 16mph.
prunenow: Doom, like me as a possible other reason. All went well with my shoulder operation on May 15th and I have been faithful to my rehab exercises but the shoulder is not where I would like it to be and may have to delay my return to league bowling for awhile unless I want to bowl at a 12mph rather than my normal 16mph. Don Gates
Bill, I have the same experience in Ocala where we started a league similar to what we did in Syracuse. With some Ocala friends we got it started seven years ago and every year whatever new bowlers we get to take the place of losses are men and women we promote ourselves, not even one coming from the center which we ask to promote before every new 11 week period so they have three chances a year to grow the league to open lanes or get more than the three on a team we have at prime time.
There are three centers in Ocala, all of them AMF and none of them have a program director, all of them replacing managers often. The AMF center in Leesburg has had the same gm for many years but no program director and all four are faced yearly with cuts in available funding for employees so things are likely to get worse and worse as employees are asked to work harder to take over duties of employees whose hours are cut or dismissed.
I was told that all the AMF centers in this district have sold their real estate and are now leasing rather than owning their property. From my distant point of view it just appears the Chicago based holding company that now owns AMF is not all that interested in growing the game and is more interested in selling property and centers to make a profit; cutting down on payroll one way to make the bottom lines look better if they can keep income up by raising prices as the number of customers decrease.
Bill, to keep my faith in the possibility of better days ahead I think having regionals where trained men and women work as program directors, bargain for the best rates when using tv, radio, newspapers; promote things together for all the centers in their jurisdicition with printed material much cheaper (especially if it is a four or eight page page newspaper tabi),the same things printed for all the centers with their names, locations and phone numbers included on the material. What centers and local associations won't do alone might be more possible if there is a coordinating regional in place to do most of the work for them and at a better cost for each center.
Doctor Doom:Well Don, that is all fine and dandy in the dream world, but the events in the realm of reality, say different. All that you outline may be the salvation of organized bowling, but I would not hold my breath. I have a hard time seeing any of it happening. Bowling has been reduced to third tier sport and it always will be, the glory days are gone, never to return. You may think the glass is half full, and somewhat clear, but facts say the glass is half empty, and very muddy. To prove my point, I am sure you know the circumstances behind the 302 bowlers not returning this year. 300 strangers from Mena Arkansas, and 2 friends from Pewaukee Wisconsin, one I have met, and one I look forward to meeting one day. If the events that led to these 302 people not bowling are allowed in this sport, then this sport is not worth saving. Just my .02 worth, take it as you will
Dear Doctor Doom:
Despite what he posts, Don probably realizes that he's talking about a "dream world." And perhaps that's why he uses the terms "I hope" and "Maybe" so frequently.
prunenow: Bill, I have the same experience in Ocala where we started a league similar to what we did in Syracuse. With some Ocala friends we got it started seven years ago and every year whatever new bowlers we get to take the place of losses are men and women we promote ourselves, not even one coming from the center which we ask to promote before every new 11 week period so they have three chances a year to grow the league to open lanes or get more than the three on a team we have at prime time. There are three centers in Ocala, all of them AMF and none of them have a program director, all of them replacing managers often. The AMF center in Leesburg has had the same gm for many years but no program director and all four are faced yearly with cuts in available funding for employees so things are likely to get worse and worse as employees are asked to work harder to take over duties of employees whose hours are cut or dismissed. I was told that all the AMF centers in this district have sold their real estate and are now leasing rather than owning their property. From my distant point of view it just appears the Chicago based holding company that now owns AMF is not all that interested in growing the game and is more interested in selling property and centers to make a profit; cutting down on payroll one way to make the bottom lines look better if they can keep income up by raising prices as the number of customers decrease. Bill, to keep my faith in the possibility of better days ahead I think having regionals where trained men and women work as program directors, bargain for the best rates when using tv, radio, newspapers; promote things together for all the centers in their jurisdicition with printed material much cheaper (especially if it is a four or eight page page newspaper tabi),the same things printed for all the centers with their names, locations and phone numbers included on the material. What centers and local associations won't do alone might be more possible if there is a coordinating regional in place to do most of the work for them and at a better cost for each center. Don Gates
Don I have two questions for you regarding your local AMF centers. I will try to make them clear and specific.
#1. If none of these centers have a program director who is schedualing all the birthday parties and glow bowling that are supposed to be replacing league bowling?
#2. If all these centers have sold all their real estate how do they expect to make a profit this year?
I would think it might be a good time for someone invested in bowling to try and find a way to offer a product that a loyal customer like a league bowler might want to buy.
skullpants, I have a question for you. How come it is so easy for you to ask questions of others but so hard for you to answer them?
What makes you think I have any knowledge at all about how AMF intends to make profits and wonder how you know they intend to schedule birthday parties to replace league bowling rather than continue a great promotion that sells itself. With bumper bowling youngsters have a great time when their birthday parties are scheduled and the guest of honor brings along friends who will pester their parents to hold a bowling party for them with no need for a program director to promote them.
don,
i think you hit upon the solution to bring back all of those millions of bowlers and also bring in millions more.
WE PESTER THEM UNTIL THEY GIVE IN!
*laughs* kidding.
