Anyone who didn't know and got Bowlers Journal learned -- big write-up on it (results included) -- I got it yesterday.

 

Mike300Smith:

Anyone who didn't know and got Bowlers Journal learned -- big write-up on it (results included) -- I got it yesterday.

 

That's my point Mike. How excited can we be expected to get, over a re-run? Then they write articles that make it seem like it happen yesterday. I mean if you did not know the outcome at first. After watching one show, you would realize it was taped. Human nature being what it is, you would most likely fast forward to see the final outcome. The final results were readily available, from many different outlets.

In my Midwest upbringing, I was taught the following -  "If you can't say something good about a subject - don't say anything at all."     It seems that some of the posters on this discussion forum could use this advise.

 

sparemenot:

In my Midwest upbringing, I was taught the following -  "If you can't say something good about a subject - don't say anything at all."     It seems that some of the posters on this discussion forum could use this advise.

 

I believe that this is still America, and I have the right to my opinion. Maybe if we had not so blindly accepted, what ABC/USBC was doing, the state of the game would not be what it is today. It is my opinion that trying to market a re-run is not the most logical way to go about growing the game. Selling bowling to bowlers, is not the way to go. 

Doom, while some bowlers may know the outcome many do not and most non bowlers who tune in may not know the results.  USBC could have had one live show to determine the winner of the U.S. Open but they apparently feel getting a five week run of taped shows has a better chance of building an audience than has one show that, as you stated, at local levels there is no need to promote it because bowlers won't read it, listen or view anything about it, either, which you did not state but probably feel, so why bother trying and they don't.

 

As a season opener series there was every opportunity to get publicity into restaurants and grocery stores to non bowlers, by tying in with bowling sponsors, for the women's shows and promotions to bring new men, women and youth into the game but probably most did not do that.

 

You, skullpants, and others do have the right to voice your complaints, anonymously or with real names, about USBC/BPAA and also the right to do nothing at all to do anything beyond complaining about them.  Complaining about them is one of the benefits of being certified.

 

Like I wrote for skullpants, BPAA/USBC has a blank slate to fill which they could with more of the same that you and others have 'blindly accepted' or something different which you should express because just maybe those that can do something different just might read what you write and like it.  Try posting some postive suggestions you might get to like it  You don't like the women's series idea, so what would you do that is better and how would you pay for it?

 

Don Gates

Don I do not know the outcome nor am I likely to learn it either. Let's be clear that this is NOT the US Open. If it were the US Open it would be open to men. I did watch part of this series last year and found it to be an uninteresting carry contest on what might well have been a house shot. Thanks, but no thanks, I have plenty of others channels to tune into if the weather happens to be bad this Sunday. 

prunenow:

Doom, while some bowlers may know the outcome many do not and most non bowlers who tune in may not know the results.  USBC could have had one live show to determine the winner of the U.S. Open but they apparently feel getting a five week run of taped shows has a better chance of building an audience than has one show that, as you stated, at local levels there is no need to promote it because bowlers won't read it, listen or view anything about it, either, which you did not state but probably feel, so why bother trying and they don't.

 

As a season opener series there was every opportunity to get publicity into restaurants and grocery stores to non bowlers, by tying in with bowling sponsors, for the women's shows and promotions to bring new men, women and youth into the game but probably most did not do that.

 

You, skullpants, and others do have the right to voice your complaints, anonymously or with real names, about USBC/BPAA and also the right to do nothing at all to do anything beyond complaining about them.  Complaining about them is one of the benefits of being certified.

 

Like I wrote for skullpants, BPAA/USBC has a blank slate to fill which they could with more of the same that you and others have 'blindly accepted' or something different which you should express because just maybe those that can do something different just might read what you write and like it.  Try posting some postive suggestions you might get to like it  You don't like the women's series idea, so what would you do that is better and how would you pay for it?

 

Don Gates

LOL Don, just about every bowler that I asked, knows who won the Women's U S Open. I did not say there was no need to promote it. You do not like it, when some one puts words in your mouth, please don't do it to me. I said there was NO EFFORT to promote it. I said it was another USBC attempt, to promote bowling to bowlers. Will you agree that the effort to promote the US Open, was sorely lacking. Me things the a very small percentage of the viewer were nonbowlers. Me also thinks, that out of that small percentage, an even smaller percentage, ran or called their local center to inquire about joining a certified league, or will after the five weeks.

If it was so important to promote a season opening series, as important as the Women's US Open, then why was it not done. Even ESPN the network that is televising the event is not putting a heck of a lot of promoting forward. Nor is the USBC, or the BPAA, care to explain why, in 20 words or less.

What is this hangup you have about being anonymous, why should you care who I am. I am not a everyday USBC basher. I have gone to the wall for USBC, on many occasions. Hell, I was even accused of being on the USBC payroll, because I defended them in many a eddiboo, and fish bash. I however, do not agree with all they do, and when I don't, I will express my opinion, and in the words of the Great Detractor, you can take it, or leave it.

This last paragraph is the most naive thought, you have ever put forth. Do you honestly think USBC/BPAA is starting with a blank slate. Do you honestly believe, that they had not formulated a business plan, before the, I won't say marriage, but the engagement, was approved, and announced. Don even you with your Rose Colored glasses, can't be that gullible, and naive. Don the main core of Good Ole Boys, is moving from Greendale to Arlington, and the main core of entrenched BPAA leadership is still in Arlington anxiously, awaiting them. What makes you think their management style will change over night. They have never been able to successfully promote the game before, what makes you think they can do it now. The leadership has to lead, it has to find a way to make the State, and Local Associations, more energetic in recruiting new bowlers. Management must provide, the tools, the training, and most of all the motivation, for an organization to succeed. USBC has not proved it can provide those things, with any consistency, AND I DON'T SEE THEM CHANGING OVERNIGHT.

Skullpants, so, sue me, it's the Women's U.S. Open you won't be watching.  I'm sure many who read these posts are most appreciative of you letting us know you will not be watching it and are anxious to hear from you again on what you are not going to do.  Perhaps, as a change  of pace to state something you will do everyone might appreciate, how about  you telling us you intend to burn your certification card as a protest against the way USBC operates, vow to never bowl in a certified league again until they mandate a much tougher  shot for everyone to bowl on, give scratch bowlers a break on bowling costs, lower average bowlers pay more as an incentive to get better, and reduce the handicap so only scratch bowlers can win the leagues and tournaments they deserve to win.

 

When they do all that, Skullpants, you tell them you will renew your certification and the right to post again.  You threaten USBC with that and they will have to take you seriously, just do it and watch them act quickly on your behalf.  I know I would miss your posts for awhile but until  you got your way I would try to deal with it.

 

Don Gates

Perhaps a better name for the event would be the USBC Closed To The Male Gender Open.

Doom, I don't care who you are, just like to read what you say if it is constructive criticism, possible remedies.  The only anonymous posters I think should come out of the shadows is those who are 'attack dogs'.  I think those men and women should reveal who they are to those they are attacking. 

Heck, I preferred to remain anonymous in the early going when I was for debating just about everyone posting against the original SMO.  It got pretty nasty and when some thought I was a paid employee at national, maybe even Roger Dalkin, I decided to let the 'attack dogs' know who I was even though many of them remained anonymous.

My remark about your not wanting the series to be promoted was based on my  thought that it should be promoted and you stated 'nobody would read it' if they did.

 

As for my being naive and gullible, you may be right but I prefer to take them at their word and don't think changes can take place overnight, years more like it.  BPAA/USBC both declared their intention to place much more emphasis on promoting bowling as a sport, much more emphasis on getting  more fertile ground for the junior seed corn  to enter, survive and thrive to become lifelong adult bowlers.  They both have pretty much gone 'all in' on this partnership and BPAA has openly declared and put it writing they have no intention of taking over USBC and would be hurt badly if USBC was to go under.

 

Why don't they promote the women's series?  They tried but there is a lousy system for them to work in.  The top to bottom system reeks and always has for 'big picture' needs.  There is no ability to command for BPAA or USBC national.  A goodly number of bowling center managers are already overloaded, wearing far too many hats because of tightening budgets.  Local association officers pick and choose what they want to read and heed.  They are not overloaded by any means but probably most are clueless about how to work together if they remain fragmented, clueless about how to engage local outlets of corporate sponsors of bowling.

The most simple things like downloading material on Bowl.com while the USA team was bowling in the World Tournament, posting pictures of the team and posing with gold medals on center bulletin boards is just not done because most have never done that sort of thing and the vast majority of local association local officers and execs are not even tuning in on Bowl.com at all,  engaged in posting on their own private thread or this one where a handful of us go at it.

 

So what if the series is primarily promoted within the bowling community.  The bowling community alone, if they were persuaded to support the series, would produce more than enough numbers to interest possible corporate sponsors.  It would have been very easy for local associations/centers to have a one page promo with pictures of the participants, brief bios and the tv schedule handed out to league bowlers on opening night, picked up when bowlers don't take them home, and passed out again just are many bowling tabs in locals lucky enough to have one.  All that available on Bowl.com for asking.

 

Don Gates

Well I guess I was right about human nature Don. After one show, even bowl.com, has spilled to beans, and told everyone who the eventual winner of the Women's US Open is.

Doom, they spilled those beans live during and after each of the taped shows to all twenty or so posters and a few hundred viewers, maybe a few hundred more. Not knowing the winners makes the shows more exciting but there are lots and lots of events in many sports and movies rerun over and over and watched over and over. I don't know how many viewers there are but enough to keep reruns of older PBA shows running on ESPN Classic. Being a certiified bowler is much llike being a democrat or republican in that you can disagree, criticize all you want but if you are an American you support your government and when they make mistakes or do things you disagree with you support the correction of those mistakes, do the best you can to make things you don't agree with work and, if you are really active ,when the opportunity arises support or be a part of the attempt to vote the rascals out, vote in men and women you think will be better or be one of those men and women yourself. If a good top to bottom organization had been in place I think the women's series and PBA would be much more successful with much better ratings and PWBA would probably still be in place and thriving. John Summers put much of his own resources into a belief that if he tried hard enough the bowling community would come around but he was doing battle with a lousy system and finally had to give up on spending more millions to support PWBA but still beats the drums whenever he gets a chance to do so for something he believed in which was evident when he was inducted into the USBC Hall of Fame. The owners of the PBA have more resources and have red ink several millions more than Summers absorbed but it won't go on forever and the non support of the bowling community could end up with PBA following PWBA off national television. Doom, you and I cannot make much of difference but 2.5 million you and I's could if they could be persuaded to do so. If the families of those 2.5 million members watched the women's series to support efforts to help women's bowling, rather than at least one lounging by his pool instead, there would be a rush of corporate advertising supporters. If those 2.5 million were to persuade one non bowling family to watch the shows and join them at the bowling center where there was a something or other organization in place to greet and help that non bowling family enoy their experience things in bowling would be so much better but we don't have that kind of organization in place. Don Gates

Don, why shoud I not be allowed to lounge by my pool instead of watching a show that likely would not hold my interest? I worked very hard to have my own recreational area that my family, friends, and I could enjoy in the privacy of my own home. I deserve it because I earned it Don. For that reason I get a great deal of satisfaction from lounging at my pool. You no longer are allowed to feel that way in the modern game of bowling.

 

Being a certified bowler is more like being a citizen of Cuba. You either are a member of the oppressive government, or you are a member of the oppressed class that are often found trying to escape by crossing an ocean in a home made raft made of anything available. Tell us Don, when will we have the opportunity to vote out any of the rascals residing at the national level. I was under the impression that there was a good ole boy network in place to keep those positions safe. When you say that a better top to bottom organization is needed what exactly do you consider to be the top? As far as I know only local leaders can be voted in or out by the membership.

 

Corporate advertising support might not be such a hard sell if bowling would try to stay with corporations that produce products that bowlers might need or want and not try to sell to corporations that are obviously out of bowling's league. For instance Nascar has dropped its sponsers in the tobacco industry in an effort to improve its image leaving several large companies with a blue collar customer base with no way to spend their marketing dollars. If bowling could just stop trying to become something that it isn't (golf) it might find that it can sell a few of the products that the white collar sports consider to be beneath them.

 

USBC, has proven with this women's series and with the "Bowl With US" (because you have no other choice) campaign that it needs to get out of the marketing business altogether.

skullpants, of course you have the right to lounge by your pool, the right to find the women's series   not interesting, allowed to feel bowling not satisfying your needs.  However, you are one person speaking for one person and I don't need to know it and don't think most of the posters on Bowl.com need to know or care to know it.  Only you seem to think we all want to know about your lounging by your pool instead of watching the women's series.  All of us could but few choose to let others know about their daily activities and give advice to others about what they should do or not do as if they had the authority to do so.

 

For your information you have the right to vote on natonal board members every year, or at least the delegates to the national convention have that right which could be you if you wanted to serve as an officer and delegate  The national board members have the right to hire and fire all the way to the top.  While local leaders can be voted out every year, though some have extended some terms,  few members vote at open meetings (probably including complainers like you) and fewer get voted out.

 

Bowling did have a tobacco sponsor for the national tournament several years ago but abandoned it when many of the 'blue collar' folks thought supporting smoking was not what they wanted to do.  Miller Beer and Pepsi Cola are a couple of present sponsors many men and women can support, many do at local levels but many more, who may like other colas and beers better could, suck it up and support bowling's sponsors if it would help the game.  Denny's is popular with some men and women and could be supported more at local levels even if they like other fast food breakfast chains better.

 

Don Gates

Continuing our discussion about sponsors since that seems to be of interest to you, I know that Dennys is a supporter of the PBA, but was unaware of its support for USBC. Who does Pepsi and Miller support and how is that support used? I personally do not consume soft drinks or beer, but I would enjoy breakfast at Denneys if one were available locally, more because I like what is on the menu than for any other reason. Years ago I would always eat breakfast on the road when traveling to sweepers and tournaments, often stopping at Denneys, but alas many of the competitive events that were once offered in great numbers have now been replaced by glow bowling, birthday parties, or some other form of the recreational game. Of course if those events were available and worthwhile I might try to support Denneys since it is after all a product that I would enjoy anyway.

 

I would think that bowling is hardly in a position to be turning away corporate support for whatever reason, but I could be wrong. I think if you look at the typical bowler you should be able to think of many sponsers that might be an easy sell. Since the typical bowler is overweight perhaps the dieting industry could be approached. Cheap wine makers might be another possibility. Can you picture the PWBA back on TV and in the first match  Carolyn Dorin Ballard is wearing a Winston shirt bowling against Michelle Feldman in a Nutra System shirt? The winner takes on Diandra in an Odor Eaters shirt, followed by Maxiene Nable in a Boone's Farm shirt.