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in

When is the WALK going to start ?

Last post 09-20-2008 12:00 AM by EagleHunter. 10 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (11 items)
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  • 09-19-2008 10:05 AM

    • echase
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-04-2005
    • North Carolina
    • Posts 183

    When is the WALK going to start ?

    "For more than 100 years, the USBC and its predecessors have served as the governing body of bowling in the United States," said USBC Vice President-National Governing Body Neil Stremmel. "One of our most important functions is to set the equipment and lane specifications that are the foundation of certified competition in our sport."
     
    "Collectively, USBC and its founding members have been sued over the years and we have never lost a case challenging our responsibility to uphold the integrity of the sport," Stremmel said. "Our membership can be assured that we will continue to vigorously protect the sport of bowling."
     
    The above qoute came from the article ,"Federal court dismisses lawsuit against USBC". My question is when are they going to start doing these things or maybe I should say Walk the Walk.?
     
    E.Chase

  • 09-19-2008 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    Perhaps everyone is going about this wrong?  MLB was left alone by everyone until the steroids problem reared its ugly head and long hallowed records began to fall because of it.  Once this came about, Congress stepped in and MLB finally took a serious look, alright at least it took some kind of look, in order to appear that it was concerned.

    Perhaps these lawsuits against USBC should focus on the various negative stereotypes that exist in bowling.  Something like..."USBC is at fault for the health of its bowlers by providing conditions that allow beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, and overweight bowlers to still be successful, all the while continuing to worsen said bowlers' overall health."

    Then perhaps Congress would be concerned...after all we are talking about the health of 2.5 million voters. 

  • 09-19-2008 12:48 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    Well, I guess we have heard from the far end of each wing, anyone in the middle have a comment?

  • 09-19-2008 2:00 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    I agree whole heartedly with echase!  USBC and its predessors have been bragging about never losing a law suit and doing its utmost to "protect the sport of bowling".  I believe on a number of occasions they have chosen to settle out of court (i.e. Roy Orf, Glenn Allison) rather than take the chance that thier position of "protecting the sport" would be overturned in court.  Then there is the pre-bowled cases wherein USBC basically folded their cards.  They have on occasion closed the barn after the horse was gone but I wouldn't call what they have been doing "vigorously protect(ing) the sport of bowling."  I think it is high time they either put up or shut up or turn integrity of the sport over to someone who really cares..

    If you are not prepared to hear the answer, don't ask the question. Its amazing what you can accomplish when you're not concerned with who gets the credit.
  • 09-19-2008 2:07 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    whiteoak agrees with echase.

    I, in turn, agree with both whiteoak and echase, and I reserve the right to comment further at any time (and you can be certain that I will). 

    I'm Bill Herald, and I approve this post.
  • 09-19-2008 2:16 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    Bill, I assume it is common knowledge but could you please print the documentation on the out of court settlements with Ray Orf and Glenn Allison and the basis on which USBC could have but did not disapprove the two 900 series bowled by Robert Mushtare?  If you can't find it just ask the other Bill because he keeps everything and is in agreement with you.

     

    Don Gates

  • 09-19-2008 2:32 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    You typically can't lose a law suit for not following the rules if in fact the rules are written vague enough or are totally unenforceable to begin with.

     

    That being said, I predict this thread will probably span 30 pages of healthy debate.  Let the dialogue begin!

  • 09-19-2008 4:13 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    Bill, the other Bill is apparently aware of several instances where ABC settled when they thought they could not win.  I know of a biggy when it may have cost them millions to try and keep ABC male only and probably lose but I am not aware of many others so you might ask him to add those others along with whatever settlement was made to Orf and Allison, especially if it involved money, if you know it to be true but don't have the documentation handy.

     

    I'm particulary interested in hearing about cases where they were in the right but thought they would lose and settled.  Making a mistake and admitting that mistake does not count as mistakes can be made at every level and are.

  • 09-19-2008 8:19 PM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    I cannot speak of Mr. Orf's situation.   

    However, I was in Southern California just a year after Mr. Allison's 900 series, and both bowled and worked in the center in question.  As I recall, the Southern California bowling press (the Pacific Bowler and the Bowling News at the time) reported that ABC won the Allison matter, the court having ruled in favor of ABC's summary judgment motion.  The judge essentially ruled that when Glenn purchased his ABC membership card, he agreed to abide by their rules.  In other words, there was no "settlement" in this case (at least none that was made public). 

    Furthermore, the word on the street is that the 900 was originally approved on the local level, but later rejected at the National level, which, if I believe everything I hear, is what precipitated the lawsuit.   

    On a personal note, I bowled the first of my three 300s at La Habra 300 Bowl in 1983.  The same association secretary who inspected Allison's 900 inspected my 300 game.  It was a good thing I am left-handed, because I overheard a conversation between the association secretary and the bowling manager at the time, wherein the secretary said "I can't believe it was a left-hander who shot 300 on this pair."  That made me believe (and the manager confirmed it -- unofficially) that had I not been a lefty, the score probably would have been rejected. 

     

    This is Mike Smith, and I approved this message. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd like to play one on TV.


  • 09-19-2008 10:29 PM In reply to

    • frank_britt
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-30-2007
    • Association: Carteret-Craven Association (North Carolina)
    • Posts 128

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    echase:

    "For more than 100 years, the USBC and its predecessors have served as the governing body of bowling in the United States," said USBC Vice President-National Governing Body Neil Stremmel. "One of our most important functions is to set the equipment and lane specifications that are the foundation of certified competition in our sport."
     
    "Collectively, USBC and its founding members have been sued over the years and we have never lost a case challenging our responsibility to uphold the integrity of the sport," Stremmel said. "Our membership can be assured that we will continue to vigorously protect the sport of bowling."
     
    The above qoute came from the article ,"Federal court dismisses lawsuit against USBC". My question is when are they going to start doing these things or maybe I should say Walk the Walk.?
     
    E.Chase

    Earl,

    I think they are, but watching is kinda like watching grass grow, or glaciers move, etc.

    Frank 

    The inability of an organization to build consensus among its constituents is a good indication of its ultimate failure. Without excellent two way communication consensus-building cannot and will not happen. Frank Britt
  • 09-20-2008 12:00 AM In reply to

    Re: When is the WALK going to start ?

    Mike,

    Here is text from the case file, referring to what you mentioned (taken from LexisNexis):

    Glenn Allison, Plaintiff, v. American Bowling Congress (ABC), etc., et al., Defendants
    No. CV 86-4719-PAR
    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
    1987 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 12461

    July 20, 1987, Decided; January 6, 1988, Filed

    8. Upon receipt of all three lane inspection reports, the ABC administrative staff followed staff followed the procedure which is customary in the case of all high scores bowled in ABC sanctioned competition. The staff reviewed the reports and while doing so noted an apparent inconsistency in Exhibit "101." The box on the right side of the report contained the recommendation of the inspectors that the scores be denied recognition. However, the general comments section at the bottom of the report indicated that the lane oil conditions "did comply" with ABC Rules. A clarification was requested by the ABC staff and in response the Orange County Bowling Association inspectors advised that, inadvertently, the word "not" was omitted from the comment and that the oil condition on the lanes did not comply with the ABC Rules. (Kellerman Aff. para. 17; Exh. 104.)

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