Can a spectator call a violation of Rule 118b/2 if they are the only person that observes the infraction? During a men's league a spectator observed the anchor bowler leave the 3-10 split and he delivered his ball between his legs but no one on either team observed the infraction. The bowler in question has bowled in various centers over the years participating in tournaments as well as leagues. He should be well aware of this rule. Also, this person normally throws a huge hooking ball from the left side of the lane. The spectator did mention to the league secretary who was bowling in opposition of the team in which this occurred; after the incident occurred. The team, on which this bowler was a member, won the points and were ahead at the time this occurred. A determination was made since neither team observed him delivering his ball between his legs that no protest would be brought about. While discussing rule 118b/2 a comment was made regarding persons who throw a hook ball or even a straight ball for their 1st ball but throw a back up ball for spare pick up on the right or left side of the lane would this also be considered in violation. If not please explain why not. 

I guess the question to ask is, did anyone ask the person in question, if he indeed did throw the ball between his legs. If they did, what was his answer. I know there have been rules infractions called in by home viewers in golf tournaments, and upon review of tapes these infractions have been upheld. Bowling on the other hand, I don't know. I think the answer lies in the integrity, and honesty of the person in question.

The SAME thing happened in a league i bowled in and the answer was NO because the guy threw the ball with the SAME hand no matter that he went between the legs or around his back or anything as long as he used the SAME hand..

 And the back up ball throwing is the same deal..

 If they used the SAME hand on DELIVERY of the ball then there wasnt no infraction..

 Its a crazy world..

 see ya

 Rich

Here is a commonly asked question from the USBC Playing Rules book pertaining to this matter: 

 

"118b/2      A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b? The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule 118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this action occurred."

 

While the bowler may not have changed hands between his first and second delivery, he did change the manner in which the ball was delivered in a significant manner.  In addition to a possible forfeiture of the game, the bowler could be charged with violation of Rule 17a, Item 3 for not bowling to the best of his ability while attempting the spare. 

 

USBC Rules Staff

1-800-514-2695 ext 3155

rules@bowl.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For all of the many things that are posted on this board, THIS is the one that gets an official comment from the Rules Department?  Something that has an already stated answer in the Rule book?  How about answering something that isn't already written in print?

That said, how about this:

Let's say a bowler is exceptionally proficient at bowling with their right hand.  Said bowler can throw a HUGE hook, can throw a tweener, can throw it straight, can throw a back-up, can throw it two-handed, heck this bowler is EVEN proficient throwing it between their legs.  This bowler can manage to succeed taking 5-steps, 4-steps, etc.

What exactly would constitute a change in the bowler's normal delivery?

Let's say that the bowler's 5-step huge hook isn't working quite enough, so the bowler changes to a 3-step two-handed delivery in order to better get around the corner in order to score better.  Is this bowler in violation?

What about when a bowler has to move in front of the ball return in order to get "deep enough" to play the lane?  Consequently the bowler is forced to take 2-steps and stand in an abnormal spot on the approach.  This would seem to constitute a change in normal delivery, doesn't it?

Based on what has been laid out here it would appear so.  What is the official response?

By the way, RULES STAFF...you never answered the original question.  I believe the poster asked:

"Can a spectator call a violation of Rule 118b/2 if they are the only person that observes the infraction?"

No place in todays game for such a rule.  When they said you could throw with two hands that should have opened up everything.  Left or right.  We even have an odd ball who throws it backwards with out looking.  The need to have a convention to rewrite all the rules from the begining.

EagleHunter wrote:

" For all of the many things that are posted on this board, THIS is the one that gets an official comment from the Rules Department?  Something that has an already stated answer in the Rule book?  How about answering something that isn't already written in print?"

The reason for our response was due to an incorrect response posted to the question.  When that happens we make every effort to post correct information if not already corrected by someone else. 

To answer the question regarding whether or not a spectator can file a protest, the answer is "No".  Only a member of the league can protest a rules violation.

Regarding the various adjustments you've referred to (change to 3 step approach, back up ball, etc.), those would not be considered a change of delivery in the application of the rule as the bowler is still delivering the ball in a similar manner.  Changing your delivery to throwing a ball between your legs is hardly comparable to those adjustments.  There's no similarity between a conventional delivery and that of throwing a ball between your legs.  In addition, while there may be an individual or two that can throw a spare as well between their legs as they could in a conventional manner, with anyone else it would be considered deliberately bowling beneath their ability.

USBC Rules Staff

1-800-514-2695 ext 3155

rules@bowl.com

 

 

 

I hate to ask the obvious, but given your response I guess I will...so can a league member file a protest if he/she never saw the infraction but was told by a spectator that it happened?  I believe that was the original question...that even though no league member ever saw the infraction, could a league member file a protest based solely on a spectator's claim?

Then...back to one of my questions:

Would a bowler be in violation of the rule if he/she switched from standard delivery to a two-handed one as I described in a previous post?  If not, how is that NOT considered a change in delivery vs. throwing it between one's legs.

Also, what if one walked to the foul line spread their legs and then delivered the ball with two hands between their legs much like little children are taught to?  This is considered a valid delivery and taught by certified coaches but would it be considered a change in delivery to the point of being in violation of the rule?

USBC Rules Staff:

Here is a commonly asked question from the USBC Playing Rules book pertaining to this matter: 

 

"118b/2      A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b? The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule 118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this action occurred."

 

While the bowler may not have changed hands between his first and second delivery, he did change the manner in which the ball was delivered in a significant manner.  In addition to a possible forfeiture of the game, the bowler could be charged with violation of Rule 17a, Item 3 for not bowling to the best of his ability while attempting the spare. 

 

USBC Rules Staff

1-800-514-2695 ext 3155

rules@bowl.com

 

Thanks for all the responses to this posting, it appears that I started a very touchy subject. I read the posting made by USBC Rules Staff regarding Rule17a, Item 3. Which states "Establishing an average below the player's ability to gain an unfair advantage in handicap or classified competion," but can't find anywhere in the rule book where it states that not bowlng to the best of his ability while attempting the spare is a violation of this rule. I do agree that a bowler who regularly bowls either right handed or left then gets frustrated either with themselves or the lane conditions that they would resort to throwing between their legs, behind their back or even backwards as someone else stated. But if they do not do this regularly than I would assume it would be bowling beneath their ability. Can someone please clarify this for me  (Rule 17a Item 3). <p> I regularly watch the pro's on television and see them throwing hook shots which sometimes carry and sometimes leave single pins or splits. Would they be in violation since when shooting for single pin spares they normally switch to a plastic ball and throw straight at their target. </p> I'm sure that if that was a violation that we would not see them doing it on television. I failed to mention in my previous post that I feel that the team who was in opposition of the team whose member did take this action not use the spectators viewing to penalize the team for this action as it would not be fair to the bowler who did take this action. Someone mentioned asking the person if they did in fact do this, what was their answer. The question is no they were not asked. We are in a house that doesn't have working foul lights and regularly have persons who foul but will not admit to this. In my opinion these bowlers are only cheating themselves by not calling the foul as it is a question of honesty and responsibilty. We have had several bowlers called on the foul who were adament that they did not foul, even though they either used the endcap to catch themselves or walked down the ramp on either side of lanes 1 or 12. <p> I do have a question about that rule 5a. It states that "a foul occurs when a part of the player's body encroaches on or goes beyond the foul line and touches any part of the lane..ect... during or after a delivery. It says player's body, what if a person's clothing causes the foul is it a foul?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I was rereading Rule 5a, I found the answer to my previous question regarding the clothing issue. It is considered a part of the players body therefore if it crosses the foul line then it would be considered a foul. I missed that part earlier when I posted my previous question.

 HJ

A similar situation occurred in our league last night (no spectator involved). My team was bowling lights out (about 40 pins above average per person in the 2nd game of 3) and the anchor bowling of the opposing team was struggling (202 average, but averaged only 173 over the first 2 games). When it got to the third game, he just gave up. Bowling from the back from a standing position. He got a 112. Because of his actions, the opposing team had no chance to win the game and he lost the point. He would have had to bowl a 192 for his team to win the game, so that may not have been on the cards for him. Though, if he'd gotten too frustrated to keep bowling, a blind score would have been enough to give them the game by 2 pins.

I'm league secretary, so I've got an official role in this.  Forfeiture of the game and point wouldn't change the results. His average is going down by 2 points, but would go down by only 1 point if the third game isn't included. [Ironically, that hurts him as he has the 2nd highest average in the league and is in contention for the individual prize.] I was advised to leave it alone by my team captain as the other team captain was handling the matter internally (said bowler got chewed out).

A 1 pin difference in advance isn't much of a sanction, though the whole incident left a bad taste in my mouth on a week when we had a great night. 

Fairlington Blade,

 

You are the secretary not the president of the league.  It is the president's job to enforce the rules not yours.  Be that as it may, the bowlers score does not count for average, and his/her teammates scores are counted for average but not for total pins in the standing.  The team receives zero for that third game.  This is the ruling that I think you would get from the rules department.

 Here is rule 118b

Each league shall adopt a rule to determine the number of games required to establish an average in that league. The following applies when establishing an average:

1.   A right-handed bowler must always bowl right-handed. Similarly, a left-handed bowler must always bowl left-handed. Penalty: Forfeiture of game.

2.   No combination of scores bowled both right- and left-handed can be used to compute an average, except as stipulated in Rule 4c.

3.   The league’s board of directors may, by majority vote, adjust a player’s average before the player bowls in the league or during the season due to injury or disability. Separate averages must be maintained.

 

*** END RULE  ***

 

Now since the player was probably not establishing average, this rule would not apply.  There are about three or four places in the rule book that state that switching hands is illegal, but there is no penalty for it once a player has established an average.  Besides shouldn't the penalty phase for switching hands be under "Changing Delivery" and not "Average How Established"?

Somebody correct me if I am wrong

USBC Rules Staff:

Here is a commonly asked question from the USBC Playing Rules book pertaining to this matter: 

 

"118b/2      A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b? The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule 118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this action occurred."

 

While the bowler may not have changed hands between his first and second delivery, he did change the manner in which the ball was delivered in a significant manner.  In addition to a possible forfeiture of the game, the bowler could be charged with violation of Rule 17a, Item 3 for not bowling to the best of his ability while attempting the spare. 

 

USBC Rules Sta